Curse

Red · Jan 01, 2008, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkhell153

you have honor, you could've simply edited your original post making everyone else who talked about it look like a complete idiot...Does the fact this idea occured to me make me a mean person?

Asked by a person with Richard as their avatar image....

anonymous · Jan 01, 2008, 05:21 AM // 05:21

What?!?!?! 1000 useless skills I can sell back and buy keys with?!?!?! Sign me up!!

/notsigned

If this actually happened, I would sell the ~1000 useless skills back and get a ton of zaishen keys. You don't need to be UAX and if you have any PvP knowledge you know what skills get used and which ones dont and never will. Just keep a stockpile of 9000 faction. That allows you to get a build that you didn't have a single skill to. Your team should get you enough faction for tomorrow if you need to play a different build if they aren't baed. If you need 9000 faction every time you PvP because you don't have any skills unlocked you either need to stick with one or two classes or hit pve and unlock the important skills that are used the most. When faction came out I usually only needed 2-3k if I was playing a new class. You need to learn the meta and unlock the skills used the most on your own without being asked by anyone to run it.

Div · Jan 01, 2008, 05:29 AM // 05:29

What if I unlocked it with PvE? :S

KycooGhost · Jan 01, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

/not signed

With Zaishen Key's now out on the market selling skills would cause the price of every rare item that can drop from the Zaishen chest to drop even further in value.

If this was to be added to the game I would sell off every non PvE unlocked skill i could and go and buy as many keys as I could, even if the sell price on the skill was 25-30% of the buy cost.

thedeadlyassassin · Jan 01, 2008, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehshadowninjar

That's completely void... I said >>>PVP<<<
Yet, you mentioned PvE... smart. And I can see that Darkhell153 is some sort of a forum troll. Hey, listen here... GTFO. It's not how long someone has been on a forum, but how much knowledge that person can apply to his or her work of arts.

That's completely void, you didn't >>>read<<< my post at all.

Sir Tificate · Jan 01, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Hmm, a few modifications are needed, are they?
How about:
*You cannot sell skills that are known by any of your characters.
*When you sell a skill or item, you do not get "Balthazar Faction," but rather something else, "Refund Faction," we'll say. It can only be used to unlock skills and runes, so it cannot be used on Zaishen Keys or Tournament Tokens.
*You can only sell skills/items that were unlocked originally with Balthazar Faction or Refund Faction.
*Selling skills/items does not give 100% of the original faction, but rather some amount less, so you can't circumvent the Balthazar Faction System altogether. (I certainly wish we could have it at 100% so we could circumvent the system, but Anet made the unlock packs, so that is now impossible.

)

Would the idea work like this? Or did I miss something?

Darkhell153 · Jan 01, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehshadowninjar

Why? If you're an idiot that sells nearly all of your skills for zaishen keys, it's your fault, no one elses.

1. Read my freakin post and sop insulting/arguing with the other members (that's my signature behavior)
2. If everyone says your idea is pathetic, then it is no arguments there
3. Stop defending your stupid idea because I'm sick of seeing your username pop up every five seconds
4. forkforkforkforkforkforkforkforkfork (ha, some of you didn't think I'd say it this time!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red

Asked by a person with Richard as their avatar image....

finally someone recognizes him.

Tyla · Jan 01, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkhell153

finally someone recognizes him.

richard? who the hell?

anyway, as people said zaishen keys will get less pricey.
and its also like uninstalling your pve char's skills

tehshadowninjar · Jan 01, 2008, 08:18 PM // 20:18

OMFG! *HEADDESK* You cannot sell skills you have learned in PvE on ANY of your PvE chars. Only in PvP with the skills you have BOUGHT with BALTHAZAR FACTION can you sell back as "Refund Faction". I also like the entire idea Sir Tificate.

CassiusDrehyg · Jan 01, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

No.

No.

No.

This will only encourage people who aren't UAX to waste more faction on Zaishen Keys. The keys are 5k faction to stop casual players from being able to farm them as a quick source of income. The idea of trading skills is good for people who aren't UAX, but not selling them altogether.

/Notsigned.

tehshadowninjar · Jan 01, 2008, 11:23 PM // 23:23

But if you listened to Sir Tificate, the sold skills could be made into "Refund Faction", where you could only buy stuff from the priest of balthazar. Meaning it's only for stuff that goes on armour, weapons, heroes, and skills. You CANNOT buy Tournament Tokens nor Zaishen Keys with "Refund Faction". >.> And WTF is "UAX"?

Sir Tificate · Jan 01, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehshadowninjar

But if you listened to Sir Tificate, the sold skills could be made into "Refund Faction", where you could only buy stuff from the priest of balthazar. Meaning it's only for stuff that goes on armour, weapons, heroes, and skills. You CANNOT buy Tournament Tokens nor Zaishen Keys with "Refund Faction". >.> And WTF is "UAX"?

UAX = Unlocked All X (X is anything, skills, runes, etc., means a person is done unlocking.)
His real point, however, is that newbies won't have to worry about saving much faction for skills, so almost all normal faction they do get will go directly to Zaishen Keys, thereby allowing casual players to farm them for a quick source of income.
...
Call me crazy, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Enlighten me, please? How would it really be worse than all the other players that are already unlocked farming these keys for income? And why shouldn't casual players be able to farm for keys?

Dougal Kronik · Jan 02, 2008, 03:34 PM // 15:34

How would the unlocked skill being refunded affect the characters account when using Heros?

/notsigned

Chicken Ftw · Jan 02, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tificate

why shouldn't casual players be able to farm for keys?

It's hard to farm 5k balth? Since when?

Sir Tificate · Jan 02, 2008, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

How would the unlocked skill being refunded affect the characters account when using Heros?

The relocked skill would probably just disappear from the hero's bar or skill menu. Locked items equipped on PvP heroes would simply disappear, leaving mod-less armor or weapons.

Quote:

It's hard to farm 5k balth? Since when?

It isn't hard to get a single key, or even several, but the chances of enough people getting enough high end items to really affect the economy rather than just be a reasonable source of income seems a little unlikely.

If I'm wrong about this, say so. If nothing else, the cost of keys could increase a bit if the skill selling was implemented. I'm not really a GW economist, so if the odd drops from the Zaishen chest are a serious problem, that can be dealt with in other ways. I think a way to help deal with the serious problems of the unlock system for PvP-ers is worth it, personally.

CassiusDrehyg · Jan 02, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tificate

UAX = Unlocked All X (X is anything, skills, runes, etc., means a person is done unlocking.)
His real point, however, is that newbies won't have to worry about saving much faction for skills, so almost all normal faction they do get will go directly to Zaishen Keys, thereby allowing casual players to farm them for a quick source of income.
...
Call me crazy, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Enlighten me, please? How would it really be worse than all the other players that are already unlocked farming these keys for income? And why shouldn't casual players be able to farm for keys?

In my honest opinion, casual Guild Wars players shouldn't be allowed to PvP. Most of these players would not be missed, because by playing Random Arenas/Alliance Battles/Other forms of scrub PvP they are contributing nothing to the PvP community as a whole, but that's beside the point.

Average Joe, who has a 10k faction cap and less than 10% of the skills unlocked should not be spending any faction at all on keys. More dedicated players with higher faction caps naturally accumulate more faction, because of UAX. Quite often, these players don't play PvE at all, and therefore don't need Flasks of Firewater, and therefore these players sell the keys they accumulate. Higher end PvP will reward you with 5000 faction quite quickly, and obviously the faction cap will fill up. Whether this is a case of epeen enlargement is up to you, but when my faction cap is filled, I prefer to empty it for keys which I can sell at a 100% profit. I have nothing better to do with the faction, whereas newbies do.

I challenge you, Sir Tificate, to come up with a way of dealing with the the negative effects of an increase in the number of high end items coming from the chest, assuming of course that the system suggested in this thread is implemented.

greenreaper3 · Jan 02, 2008, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehshadowninjar

Okay, you know how you buy skills in PvP with ONLY Balthazar Faction, right? Well, I was thinking if whatever you buy with Balthazar faction, if you decided you didn't want it, you could sell it for 70%-100% of the Balthazar Faction you bought it for. You cannot sell any PvP related items that were already there before you used any faction to buy anything.

/notsigned i see 2 things wrong...

1. what about elite tomes? its not like...hmm i want SoJ but i dont wanna cap it..ill use an elite tome! but i dont have it unlocked....oh ill sell WoH, get SoJ, sell SoJ, then get WoH again

2......just no

scrump · Jan 02, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

/not signed

makes the unlock system redundent

Sir Tificate · Jan 03, 2008, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by CassiusDrehyg

I challenge you, Sir Tificate, to come up with a way of dealing with the the negative effects of an increase in the number of high end items coming from the chest, assuming of course that the system suggested in this thread is implemented.

I accept your challenge.
Attempt #1, tell me if it works.

Two chests:

Zaishen Chest
Drops silly consumables, tomes, and some of the lower end gold items. (Maybe higher end gold items can drop, but with a seriously low frequency.) Unlockable with a Zaishen Key, 5k faction. These keys can only be bought with faction by a player who has unlocked 25% of his/her total available skills/items. Important: If you reach this mark at any point, you can NEVER lose it. If you buy another campaign and your total falls below 25%, you can still exchange faction for keys.

Champion's Chest
Drops tomes and any kind of gold item. This can be opened with a Champion's Key. The Champion's Key costs 10k faction. These keys can only be bought with faction by a player who has one of the following:
R9+ Champion Title
R12+ Hero Title
R12 Gladiator Title
90%+ of total available skills/items unlocked

Exact requirements can be fiddled with as needed.

Exactly which items are "lower end" can be debated by people who know the prices for them.

Also, what's wrong with casual players? They don't contribute to high end PvP, but they certainly don't detract from it in RA/AB/etc. Not everyone has the patience for HA and GvG, but they do like PvP, something Guild Wars seems fairly good at with its skill system.

tehshadowninjar · Jan 30, 2008, 09:27 PM // 21:27

I think the "Refund Faction" is the best way to go. End of discussion.